Hey Gang,

I haven’t posted too much on here but I don’t consider myself a newbie. Or at least I didn’t until I just bought my first plasma. I’ve had my Samsung PN50B550 for about 3 weeks now and so far it’s love and hate.

I’ve logged about 125 hours break-in time using the slides on a dvd with the following settings:

Mode: Standard
Cell: 3
Contrast: 45
Brightness: 45
Sharpness: 45
Color: 45

with no other adjustments to the defaults.

Aside from watching some TV shows with these settings on, I’ve only watched about 20 minutes of NBA HD, 20 minutes of ESPN HD and 2 HD movies: The Hurt Locker on Blu-ray and A Serious Man on Comcast HD. For these, I’ve used the following settings:

Mode: Movie Warm2
Cell: 10
Contrast: 95
Brightness: 48
Sharpness: 3
Color: 48

My problem is that I don’t know how to judge what I am seeing vs. what I should expect with a plasma as well as this PARTICULAR plasma.

I feel like even after 125 hours of break-in there is serious IR. Watching ESPN HD for about 15 minutes caused IR. Even the Oppo screensaver which has a logo that fades in and out for about 6 seconds causes brief IR. Now, the IR does go away after running the scroller but is this going to be something I will always have to deal with on this set? Will it get better over time? Or does this set just have IR and I have to deal with it? I’ve heard from users on here with this same set that say they have never seen IR and I just really find that hard to believe. I get IR after leaving my Blu-Ray player menu up for about 90 seconds!

The next problem is judder. I feel like I have a good grasp on what judder is, why it happens and what it looks like. While watching both The Hurt Locker on Blu-ray and A Serious Man on Comcast HD I saw noticeable judder (especially in The Hurt Locker). While watching ESPN HD, the ticker at the bottom was blurry, trailing and juddering so much so that I couldn’t ignore it. Again, is this something that will improve with this set? Is there some function I am not setting properly or is it just how things are.

I should mention that my previous set was a 37" Samsung LCD and I never noticed any of these problems.

A few points I thought might help my situation are:

1) Breaking the set in with the cell light at 10. I assume since the phosphors burn brighter they break in faster hopefully eliminating such obvious IR.

2) Sitting further away from the set. Right now we are about 7 feet from a 50" set. Would my eyes not notice the judder if I was further away?

I’m sorry this is so long. I’ve done hours of research here on the forum and still feel like I have no solid answers. Also, I’m running out of time to return the set if there is indeed something wrong with it, but I really don’t want to do that unless absolutely necessary.

To wrap up though, when those settings are dialed in, watching NBA HD and The Hurt Locker, I’ve been blown away (minus the judder of course). There is no noticeable buzz and the glare doesn’t bother me at all.

Thanks in advance.

I was considering buying the P46S1 because of a recent discount. However, I just found out that I can pre-order the 2010 series 46" S2 for just $160 more. I’m wondering if it’s worth it (for that same amount I can get a 46" G10…).

There’s also the concern that the S2 hasn’t actually been reviewed as it hasn’t been released.

One reason I’m considering it is to avoid the whole "doubling black levels" issue, but that’s really not a big concern in my mind.

Comparing the two side by side, I see:

S2 has a native: 2,000,000:1 contrast ratio whereas the S1 has a 40,000:1. Could the two really differ that much? And is that worth the extra money?

The Panasonic site doesn’t state the resolution for the S2 (N/A). I assume, though, that it’s 1080p. It doesn’t state the pixel pitch, either.

It doesn’t support Full HD 3D (neither does). What exactly is this? It says N/A for panel, but then on the overview page it says "Neo PDP".

The S2 supports x.v. color, but I assume I shouldn’t care about this…?

It supports 3D color management, which the S1 doesn’t. What is this? Should I care?

It does claim to have a significantly lower power consumption (331 vs 556 W). Also is a bit lighter.

A bit about myself: Never owned a HD TV before. I am somewhat picky about colors, etc, but I don’t see myself obsessing too much over these things. I want "pretty good", not necessarily "best possible" colors. I assume that coming from the CRT world, I’m bound to like the S1/S2?

So: Ideas if I should just go for the S1 now? Preorder the S2? Ditch both and get the G10 now? The only two things going for the S2 right now are the higher contrast ratio, and the possibility that it won’t have the black lighting flaw - and I’m not sure if I should give more weight to either. And the S2 has not yet been tested…

Thanks.

Ok, I stated previously in the black level doubling thread that I thought someone should compile a list of Panasonic owners with the black level problem, their measurements where available, and measurements from owners who believe they don’t have the problem. As no one else has stepped up to the plate, I’ll offer to do this myself. Any model Panasonic G11 (2008), G12 (2009), G13 (2010) are welcome, but also older Panasonic plasma measurements would be appreciated as well for way of comparison.

• Anyone who owns any Panasonic plasma of any year, please PM me your measurements (model, manufacture date, hours - give me the measurements at as many hour intervals that you have available, black level, device used to measure, and whether you have the infinite black problem) regardless of whether or not you think you have the black level problem.
• PM me if you have the black level problem, but are unable to take the measurements yourself. I will compile a list to facilitate other members helping each other out to measure their black levels.
• If you are in a position to have concrete knowledge about how black level works, the nature of the black level issue, etc… please PM me the information as you want it posted for easier reference to answer people’s questions. I will not post speculation or opinion in this thread so please back up where you got your information from. If you don’t want sources posted publicly that is fine, however I do need to know that the information I am updating this thread with is in fact valid and legitimate.
• Anyone who has an understanding of lighting environments, please PM me what translates to perceived black in at various lighting levels. I want numbers for black level as it compares with lighting levels. Also please provide examples to make it clearer conceptually what different lighting levels typically equate to in terms of light source, direction, distance, etc… This section will be intended to provide a clearer understanding to people who have the problem how to adjust their lighting environment to eliminate or at least diminish the effect of raised black levels.

As I final note, the reason I am doing this is because it appears there are several different camps as regards to the "black level issue" - those who have it who do or don’t care, those who think/don’t have it, those who think all Panasonic plasmas have the issue, those that think it’s people’s fickle imaginations, and those who like to bash plasma and/or LCD.

My hope is that this thread and by keeping it up-to-date with any information other users would be kind enough to provide me and give me permission to repost (again please PM me the info especially if this thread gets cluttered) will allow a clearer understanding of the black level problem, how widespread it is, and either put to rest those people going on a Panasonic-bashing frenzy or alternatively prove them correct through the numbers, and more importantly to allow owners who have the black level problem to have some hard numbers to back up their claims for what the issue is and to try and get some movement from Panasonic to provide a permanent fix for it by providing a clearer indication of the symptoms. I hope to keep the information in this thread free from speculation, listing only known facts (not theories), and concrete measurements.

Ok, I’ve read through hundreds (if not thousands) of posts here trying to make a decision. Tax refund will be here mid-Feb. and I’m looking to get our first flatscreen tv to replace a 400 lb. Sony 34" CRT behemoth. Originally, I was set on LCD or LED/LCD, probably Samsung, Toshiba or Sony (in that order), but am thinking now that plasma is the way to go. I’m the type that would rather pay a little extra rather than compromise quality due to price. I’d rather go without than buy something simply because "it’s all I could afford."

My needs/concerns are:

• LR is setup with wide angle seating, between 35-40 degrees to each side ranging from 8′-12′, so viewing angle is a big concern
• Picture quality is a concern. I want to really enjoy the picture as we’re HUGE movie buffs (have about 3,000 dvds now) and have now begun buying Blu-Ray in anticipation of the move to HD (new Star Trek was first Blu-Ray purchase)
• TV use is probably: 40% cable programming / 35% movies / 25% gaming
• Gaming - have a Wii, PS3 and PS2 that are played regularly
• Connectivity - the listed gaming systems, plus have a reg DVD player, older Onkyo surround sound system (non-HDMI), and a cablebox.

It seems the Panasonic plasmas are the way to go. Obviously I’d like as big as possible, but without breaking the budget either. I definitely don’t want to go lower than 46"/48", and would prefer something between 50"-58". We do have a large picture window in the LR, but typically keep the blinds closed. Normally view tv at night with only one low-watt light on in the room.

After everything I’ve read, I’m liking the V10 series. Between the THX certification and the 24p Cinematic playback, it seems like the perfect fit for my preferences. The G10’s don’t seem bad either, though they sacrifice the 24p playback. The Panasonic Viera Cast is also a nice feature, just not sure how much it’d get used. I would prefer a set that has wireless capability to access vids & movies on my PC and the internet.

To this extent, I’d love some feedback and opinions on my choices and any other suggestions you may have. My budget is $1500-$2000. I’m leaning towards the TC-P50V10, while a little over my budget, I think I can justify the expense to the wife, and it does seem a good investment (IF I can find one, almost everyone seems out of stock now.) This will be a huge investment for me as we only replace TVs about once every 10 years, so I’d prefer to get something that’s semi-future-proof (if there is such a thing in electronics now, lol)

My ?’s…

1. Is the V10 worth the extra $$$ over a G10/G15 model given my preferences?
2. Am I overlooking any other models or brands that are comparable?
3. Can anyone point to a reputable online dealer or local retailer (BB, Sears, etc.) that still has the V10’s in stock?
4. Would a 54" G10/G15/S1 be preferred over a 50" V10?
5. If V10’s are completely gone by mid-month, any suggestions on a similar model without going over my budget?
6. Any word yet on when new models like the VT25 will be in stock, along with pricing (though I’d hate to pay the high $ just because it’s "the new thing", and besides, if I don’t get it when the tax refund comes, there’s a good chance I, or the wife, would spend it on something else (it happened last year) then I’ll be stuck waiting another year…again)?

Much appreciation and thanks to any and all that reply. I’m just on information overload now and it’s all beginning to blur together. I’d just really like to hear opinions on the differences between the models I’m considering and the other concerns/questions I’ve made.

Also, can anyone point to where I can find out discount codes for the various online sellers (Amazon, 6th Ave., etc.)? Or any that regularly have special promos like free S&H, free Blu-Ray player w/set, etc.?

Again thanks, and I hope there are lots of replies to this. If I’ve missed providing any info, let me know and I’ll reply with whatever info I can.

Full View
Help on HDTV decisions
…
From:
Tommy Boy <tarballtgz@yahoo.com>
…
Add to Contacts
To: hdguru@hdguru.com
Hi, n00b here…

I’ve been doing research for several months on which HDTV to buy. It recently came down to the Samsung Un55b8500 and the Panasonic TC-p65v10. The more I read about Plasma vs LCD, the more I’m inclined to go with Plasma. The main advantages I can tell going with plasma would be clearer pictures and deeper blacks.

However, as I understand it, refresh rate of LCDs is much higher than plasmas (240hz vs 96hz for best plasma out). This leads me to believe that LCDs would be better tuned for sports and video games, which are really the only two things (well blu ray movies too) I would use the TV for. And then I see the "response time" on each…the lowest of which on LCD I’ve seen as 4ms. Plasma is well below the sub millisecond response range…so now this leads me to believe plasma would be smoother for fast moving content like video games/sports.

And just as I am thinking about buying the Panasonic, I’m doing some last minute searches and I run across the hdguru posting posting from CES 2010, the report on Panasonic…

I don’t really care much for 3d, but the 120hz processor, the Pioneer Kuro technology that will be implemented, etc (the damn PRO-151FD is plainly out of my $ range)…now I’m thinking maybe I should hold off. Granted, we don’t know what the price point will be for the VT25 series (or any other for that matter)…but no matter what it is, I’m sure it will drive down prices on the "old" models…

In summary, my questions are…

1. what is better, LCD or plasma (used for blu ray movies, gaming and sports)…and why?
2. Can you explain the whole refresh rate vs response times? I would think these go hand in hand
3. any one think holding off until the Panasonic VT25s would be worth the wait.

FYI: Main reason I’m looking at new set is for World Cup June 11th (must have TV by then!)

Thanks!

Tommy

Has anyone had any experience with service centers in the Dallas/Fort Worth area?

My six month old Pioneer Kuro 500m is broken and I’m looking to get it serviced under warranty.

This is the list I got from Pioneer Customer Service.

1. A.J. ELECTRONICS INC.
2001 COIT ROAD SUITE# 166
PLANO, TX 75075
(972) 612-9748

2. INTECH
2154 S HIGHWAY 121, SUITE 600
LEWISVILLE, TX 75067
(972) 436-9078

3. HAR-WEST SOUND & VIDEO
2214 S JUPITER ROAD, STE #210
GARLAND, TX 75041
(972) 278-6858

4. C & R TELEVISION SERVICE
10257 FERGUSON RD
DALLAS, TX 75228
(214) 725-5090

5. JOTS ELECTRONICS, INC.
3201 E PIONEER PARKWAY, STE 44
ARLINGTON, TX 76010
(817) 640-0880

I had initially settled on InTech since I got the impression they were very well respected and knowledgeable, but they are "unwilling" to service my Kuro. The tech on the phone said something about Pioneer stiffing them on bills or something, so they no longer service Pioneers. Whether that’s true or not, I’m not sure but they are definitely out.

AJ Electronics is the closest to me, but I visited their store front and I was very put off by what I experienced. TV’s stacked everywhere with not much care taken to properly protect them. It also didn’t help that I was in their store for over ten minutes and never saw or spoke to one employee. Certainly not a tell all on their knowledge, but put off nonetheless.

JOTS Electronics was recommended by InTech, but they are roughly 30 miles away, so they might not be willing to come to Plano for me.

I found a few good things on C & R, so I’m leaning toward them at the moment.

Anyone have any first hand experience or recommendations for a service center in Dallas/Fort Worth?

Ok, So I have my allowance that I get for doing my chores set by the wife and I am finally ready to pull the trigger on a new TV. I know I want a 46"-52" TV. I am pretty sure I am going to go with Plasma. What I do not know is where I want to go. I have it narrowed down to a few to choose from. Please help me make a decision and support why.

Some background first… I am blind as a bat so I can not really tell detail unless I am right up on the TV. I will be viewing the TV at about 10′. What I do notice a lot is motion blur in fast images. This is why I have decided to go mainly with a plasma. The second most important thing to me is color. I want rich full color that is life like. I want a picture of an apple on the TV to look good enough to lick. Lastly, I would like the on-board sound to be fairly ok. I do not want to have to run everything through my receiver all the time (Heck, I would like to get rid of my receiver if I could). My budget is less than $900. I mainly watch direct TV and play games on the Wii or XBox 360. I do not own a blu-ray but I will most likely in the future (I got burned on an HD-DVD player years ago so I do have a few of them that I watch). The TV will be in the living room, mounted above the fireplace but will be used for everyday watching, cartoons for the kiddo, and sports when football season comes back around. (Or the Winter Games around the corner) So, pretty basic use and nothing too extreme. I guess overall, I want the most bang for my buck knowing that I want the TV to last but technology is changing so fast that I do not need to be on the cutting edge of it.

First up is the Panasonic TCP50S1 for about $850. It is becoming hard to find but I think I have located a few that I can buy. It is 1080P and has good hook-ups. I have seen it work and it looks like a good set but I do not trust what I see in the store.

The next option is the Panasonic TCP50X1 for about $650. It is hard to find as well but I have located a few. It is 720P but seeing it beside the S1, I really could not tell a difference. I do not NEED 1080P but it might be worth springing the extra $200 if someone can convince me that there is a reason to have it.

Third option is the Samsung PN50B450B1D for about $750. It is a 720P set and I liked the color of it when compared to the Panasonics. But I did not see much difference to support the higher price tag.

Forth option is the 1080P Samsung (I do not have the model number on me). It was nice as well and is similar in price to the S1. Again, I did not notice too much of a difference.

Fifth option is the LG 50PQ30 for about $675. It looked better to me in picture than the X1 when put side by side but I know that it could be just how they have the TV set up in terms of color and temperature. I have liked some of the LGs I have looked at in the LCD world, but I know that does not translate to anything on the Plasma side. I think I remember reading that the LGs were just re-branded Samsungs too, but I do not know that for sure.

Last, but not least, we have the only LCD in the field. The Toshiba 52Xv645U for about $900. It is the most expensive TV in the list. It was bright, but all LCDs are, which was nice and the color looked good as well. I did not really notice any motion blur that I normally see in an LCD in this price range, but then again many stores are not putting video on display that is going to risk the TV showing any type of blur.

So what say the experts? Where is the most bang for my buck and why?!? What TV should come home with me this weekend?!?

New here, did a Google search on the S1 vs V10, and the exact thoughts that Ive had stuck in my head for days now, were posted already! I found a great thread, but it was over 130+ days old, so I figured I would start a new one…

I’m personally torn between the following Plasma’s, and I’ve included my personal Pro / Con opinions. Would love to hear what some true videophiles have to say. I’m tired of reading “paid for” reviews on the bigger named review sites.

• 60” Pioneer Kuro 6020 – PRO: Super Clear CON: Very Dim
• 58” Panasonic V10 – PRO: Very Clear, yet Warm CON: Backordered from Panasonic, and I don’t trust online stores to deliver in one piece, and don’t feel like waiting 6 weeks for a TV, unless it’s a far superior 2010 secret model I don’t know about!
• 58” Panasonic S1 – PRO: Price, Picture is pretty clear CON: For some reason, side by side, same settings (both cinema mode) the 58” looked noticeably clearer than the 65” (from about 15 ft away) - I have yet to see a 65" that looks as good as a 58"… but would love one if it existed!
• 58" Samsung 860 - I personally think (in my local Best Buy’s Magnolia store) that the 58" Samsung 860 was the best all around picture, however, I went through 2 sets already trying to get one that doesn’t have the infamous BUZZ! Omg, so very annoying… the picture on it is clear, nice colors, and bright, but not too bright…

Also, I have a question about “Professional Calibration” — Does it do anything for clarity and brightness? …or is it just adjusting the color temperatures, etc according to the surrounding lighting conditions, etc. I don’t mind spending some money for something I’m really going to enjoy, however, I hate blowing even $1 out of principal on hype and myths…

My Stuff:

A/V Receiver: Harman Kardon AVR247 7.1 Receiver
Surround Sound: Jamo ACS Satellite Surround Sound System (sounds amazing for the $300 I spent on them — I know there’s much better out there, but until I get a dedicated home theater room, I’m waiting for a big move in that arena – I have Dynaudio Components in my car, and will probably go with them when I make this move!)

Watching Movies: Bluray/PS3 >> I was recently told that the PS3 isn’t the best source for Blu Ray? I thought everybody licenses the same Blu Ray Technology from Sony?

Watching Regular TV: Direct TV

Wiring: I’m using Rocket Fish HDMI’s. I’ve read a signal is a signal when it comes to HDMI’s? (I purchased a $150 Monster HDMI Cable along with a Monster power surge protector / line conditioner, and it did absolutely nothing. I returned it the same day)

– Would love to hear of any recommendations if any, for me to improve my current setup? Thanks in advance!

:confused:

Jason

I’m completely happy about the performance of my 42" Samsung plasma TV (color, resolution, etc.) except for one important item: a moderately loud "crackling" noise that emmanating from all over the rear of the set fairly consistently. I believe that this noise is due to the various connection points of the plastic bezel to the metal rear housing although I haven’t been able to nail down one point of origin nor verify whether some of the noise might be truly internal (i.e. possibly some noise from metal-to-metal or metal-on-plastic electronic part interactions).

The Owner’s manual does clearly state the following:

"A crackling noise may occur when the product contracts or expands due to a change in the surrounding environment such as temperature or humidity. This is normal and not a defect of the unit."

However, the crackling noise persists in my set at all times of the day, regardless whether it is on or off, plugged in or not! About the only time that I haven’t heard the noise is after the set has been on for a significant amount of time, which might obviously indicate that the set has come to a consistent temperature, thus no expansion/contraction. However, it also might just be that I don’t hear the noise at these times because it’s being drowned out by the TV speakers!?

I came across no reports of this type of noise while researching plasma TV’s heavily on this and other websites prior to purchase. This is not any sort of "buzzing" noise coming from the TV’s speakers. Nor do I believe the noise is due to a defective power supply since it also occurs when the TV is unplugged.

What’s puzzling to me is that while the actual performance of my TV has been very good (as many commenters here on AVS Forum along with over 80 reviewers on both bestbuy.com and amazon.com have generally stated), I can find no reports by others of this distracting noise which leads me to assume that mine is truly a defective unit.

The store I bought this at has a 30-day exchange/return policy and this is day 30! I’m not really looking forward to boxing the set up and returning it but I don’t think I can pass up an opportunity to try to see if another PN42B450 wouldn’t be alot quieter.

Any thoughts? Others with persistent "crackling" plasmas? If I take it back, it pretty much has to be today! :rolleyes:

Opinions and/or comments please. After review & more review, I’m close to pulling the trigger on this setup.

the V10!
Panasonic - VIERA / 58" Class / 1080p / 600Hz / Plasma HDTV TC-P58V10

not sure on this but going with size & pricing … monoprice solution is better b/c it’s cheaper but have no idea
PREMIUM Adjustable Tilting 2.5mm Wall Mount Bracket for LCD Plasma (Max 165Lbs, 37~63inch) - BLACK

or

from bb: Sanus - VisionMount Tilting Wall Mount For Most 30" - 60" Flat-Panel TVs - Black LT25-B1

after reviewing the audio/speaker avsforum section, this one seems to be the ticket for my setup
Vizio Sound Bar w/ Wireless Subwoofer, VSB210WS

not sure on this one yet. if there are other choices, I’m open to change.
Monster Power - 8-Outlet High-Definition PowerCenter Surge Protector MP HDP 1800

getting blu-ray & ps3!!
Sony - PlayStation 3 (250GB)

we already have a Wii so it will go with this system as well.

that’s the plan as of now. Now, I have to see if I can get any discounts @ BestBuy and take advantage of their 36mos money!